Katie VanArnam & Casey Glazer of Courage Tees: A Cancer Survivor's Shirts That Restore Dignity in Treatment
18VC Podcast · Episode 24 · October 30, 2026
Guests: Katie VanArnam, Casey Glazer
Source: https://www.18-vc.com/podcast/katie-casey-courage-tees

Host: Yeah, we'll just look at you and not the screen. You can look wherever. I'm just looking at you guys — we'll look at you. You're good. And just the last thing: I will edit awkward moments, silences out, as I often do during interviews, so don't worry about thinking a bit longer about a question, or taking some time.

Host: All right, I think that's working. This one's working. Okay, we're ready. I don't know why, but I just get so nervous.

Katie: You're nervous? I honestly, I do this kind of stuff for journalism, and I always feel the same way. It's always a little bit nerve-wracking, so I get it.

Casey: And I think people out in the field say that. In all fields — before they go on stage, before they start an interview.

Host: Yeah, but I'll ease up over time, so. No worries. It's all right. And it's all I can do not to swivel — I just want to zoom around in this chair. I'm just taking over my opening today, and I don't want to be so robotic.

Katie: I know, right? Take your time.

Host: Okay, I think I'm all right. Are you guys all right?

Katie: Yeah, we're ready.

Host: Good morning, good afternoon, good evening, everyone, and welcome to episode 24 of 18VC. Today we are here with Katie and Casey from Courage Tees, and today's episode hosts will be me, David, and Philip. We met Katie from the USC Incubator Open House event, but we actually found out about Courage Tees from attending the New Venture Seed Competition last semester, so a few months ago, and saw Courage Tees winning the first prize. So we had to talk to her and get to know about her business. And it's particularly more interesting to us because the businesses and founders that we've talked to primarily focus more on cost-cutting, product efficiency, and are a little short on the human-care side. So we wanted to invite you guys to talk about your insights, and we're extremely grateful for your presence here today.

Casey: Thank you for having us. We're so excited to be here.

Host: Okay, I guess we'll start with the questions about you guys as founders first, before we get into the nitty-gritty of the business. So you said you were eight years old when you were diagnosed with your condition. What do you remember about the first day of the diagnosis?

Katie: That's such a crazy question, because, well, it took so long to actually get to the diagnosis. So I was having symptoms for eight months before I was finally diagnosed, and then you found out my diagnosis first, out of anyone. And you and my dad sat me down on the couch and told me what was happening. And I already knew something was up, because my parents are divorced, and so when they're together, sitting down in the living room, something's up. Something's wrong. So I think, yeah, you sat me down and told me, and — I don't remember this, but you said my first question was, "Am I going to die?" And the answer is no. But then my second question was, "Am I going to lose my hair?" And the answer was yes. So that's what I remember from learning about the diagnosis. And then the first day at the hospital, I feel like it kind of just blends together. So I don't know if I specifically remember the first day in the hospital, but I do remember going to a lot of doctor's appointments. I don't know, what do you remember?

Casey: I vividly remember all of it. Katie was diagnosed with lymphoma, which is a blood cancer. And it took us eight months for the diagnosis, because her blood counts were always good, and so people didn't think it was cancer. That alone was a process. We were in the emergency room, didn't receive the diagnosis. We had testing, didn't receive the diagnosis. Even when you finally had the biopsy, they said, "Oh, well, we don't think it's cancer, but we'll see what it is." And Kate had a telltale lymphoma sign — she had a lymph node the size of a golf ball on her shoulder. So it is curious how long it took. So Katie gets the biopsy. She goes off the next week with her grandparents and her cousins, and then we receive the phone call. I do remember how horrible it was to tell you, and your reaction. And then so many doctor's appointments. She had to have a port inserted — and it all happened quickly, because they want to get you started on the chemo regimen very quickly.

Host: You said — and this is for Katie — you were feeling vulnerable. I'm sure you were scared, both the family and all. How much would you say of that emotion was attributed to the medical part, the port going inside of you? Or would you say about being exposed, having to undress and all?

Katie: I think both. It's equally more that I just didn't know entirely what was happening to me. It was like, oh, all of these medical things are happening that are so foreign and difficult for me to understand at such a young age, and then being expected all of the sudden to have to undress for these procedures in front of doctors. It just felt like — yeah, I was completely vulnerable, and suddenly I had to just be naked in front of a bunch of strangers, and I didn't even really know what was going on. And so I would say both were very scary.

Casey: And that first day, we didn't understand. We really didn't understand. So Katie's wearing just a regular shirt, and she has it up to here, and they're trying to get to her port to access it, and that was difficult for the nurse. It was difficult for you.

Katie: Yeah, it's both things. Like, oh, I have my shirt up, and there's a giant needle coming at my chest. What is going on? I think that was a lot of the feeling in the beginning — there's so many factors coming at you that you just don't really know what's happening, and it's all scary.

Host: And Casey, you solved it by getting a shirt and then just Velcro and slip.

Casey: That night, that first night of chemo, I thought — because truly, as a parent, you are putting your child in the hands of the medical profession, as in this case we needed to, so it does often feel like there isn't much you can do. So that night — we do a little bit of sewing, we make blankets and pajama pants — I went home that night, and Kate gave me an old shirt, and I cut the opening over the port, and I had Velcro, and I just sewed it up with Velcro. And when we went into CHOP the next day, they had never seen anything like it there. It's much more common now, but they opened it with the Velcro. They could easily access her port and close it up, and then all of the tubes would hang down. So she never had to be disturbed again until they de-accessed at the end of the day.

Host: And after that ingenious invention, Katie, you supposedly said you want something that's more like yours, right? So would you say that was a first spark of it turning into a design choice, turning into more of a business idea, or was it just a whim of a child?

Katie: I guess it probably wasn't a business idea yet at that point. I think it was maybe more that, oh, I wanted something that felt familiar to me, because all of these things are changing and unfamiliar. Like, oh, I get to wear a shirt that represents me and looks like me and makes me feel like, oh, I'm not just this kid with cancer, but I'm also a kid who loves sports or different pets. I loved Snoopy at the time, so we would make port shirts out of Snoopy, or shirts for different holidays, and it was something super fun that we did together, and it just brought us so much joy that I think from that experience is when the business idea developed.

Casey: I would say so. And one of our main tenets is you are still you. You are not this disease. You are not this treatment. You are still the little girl who loves Snoopy, and dogs, and cats.

Host: Yeah. And I would like to expand a little bit. So it was you that first had this initial version of the shirt. And when did you discover some maybe other families, other patients that were having similar challenges as you face? How does that idea come — not only your shirts, but also a shirt for people with similar challenges?

Katie: Yeah. I think maybe that is better answered by you.

Casey: Okay. Well, rather quickly, I have a design patent for the design, which was still happening when Katie was undergoing treatment. And we thought through different designs together, which was really fun. And then when Katie was older, we thought of older designs for older kids. It's something that we did together to kind of keep us going, and something to focus on.

Katie: Yeah, and I would say we probably realized how impactful it was for us, and saw other families who it could also help, other kids, other adults. And I think a lot of the response, especially that we got from nurses, was how much easier it was for both them and the patient, and I think that also was a big revelation — like, oh, this could be something that helps a bunch of people, not just us.

Casey: And people want to help. We had extraordinary support from our community, family, and friends, and people want to help. And one of the other ideas that came from this was the companion shirt. So if your loved one or your classmate is going through this, we had the same shirt with the same designs, but instead of a port opening, it had a contrasting strip of material. So on the day of treatment, you could wear that with your child, or when they come back to school, you could wear it.

Katie: Yeah, just to show them they're not alone.

Host: And I think you mentioned, too, even the nurses wanted to have the companion shirts.

Casey: Nurses do so much outside of just the medical care. They really offer a lot of emotional support as well. Information — just every time we went, we learned something new about the disease, or treatment, or how to handle it.

Host: And about the name — you named it Courage Tees. What message do you try to convey with such a name?

Katie: It's funny, we talked about the name a lot, because Courage Tees was the original. That was the name, and then over the years we were like, "Okay, do we want to change it? Do we want to make it something different? What is really important?" But I think it comes back to — actually, we started a blog on our website, and I recently posted the first blog post, and I talked about what courage means. And I think everyone going through cancer treatment is super courageous, and it's not even in the way that you expect it to be. It's not this huge — you don't feel heroic, you don't feel brave, but the fact that you're still pushing through and trying to find joy and trying to find positives while you're going through treatment is really something of courage. So I think that's why. But it really just felt like that's what's left of you — the most powerful part of yourself comes out when you're going through something that difficult. And that's kind of what we wanted to convey with the shirts: even if you don't feel brave or strong, like you are, you have this shirt to remind yourself that you are still you, and you are this brave, incredible person going through treatment.

Host: Yeah, that's an amazing message to convey, especially for patients who are going through all these challenges and hardness. And I think you went into remission since 2014, and this became a company in 2025. Why was it 2025? Why was it not earlier? Is there any specific class or event or person you met that kind of triggered this idea and turned it into a business?

Katie: I think we really did want this to become a business very soon after — all along. And we worked with manufacturers from the beginning, and we got that design patent, and so we were really preparing for this to become a business. But I think part of it, especially for me, was after going through treatment for so long, I kind of just wanted to get away from it and not have anything to do with the identity of cancer patient. I just didn't want any part of it. And I think it was honestly probably a positive experience for us to also just take a step back and live life again and see what that felt like. But it was still always something we talked about and wanted to do. And then I think when I came to USC, I felt very inspired, because I saw so many entrepreneurs, and it was like, okay, this thing that we've been dreaming about doing for so long, but has felt so scary because it was such a difficult part of life, is something that we are capable of, and we can do, and we have the resources and the opportunities. And we've had the life experience now to take it on and make it successful.

Host: I'm already invested, to be honest. This is a great episode. I am, again, glad that you guys are here. Just going on a little bit towards the business side here, and the problem it directly faces in a way: could you describe what a chest port would be for somebody who's never seen or been around cancer patients?

Katie: Yeah. I have this as the shirt. It opens. A port is basically a device that's surgically inserted into your chest, and it allows for long-term vein access. So it connects to one of your main veins by your heart so that doctors can administer medicine, and then also do blood work and administer fluids through that port. And the reason a lot of patients get it is because the other option is an IV in your arm, but the veins in your arm are much thinner, and they're more easily fried by the chemo, so it's more dangerous to insert chemo through the arm. Which is why having it near a larger vein near the heart, where there's more blood flow, so it dilutes the chemo so it doesn't harm your veins as much, is super important. So that's why most people get ports.

Host: I got to ask, because I was very surprised that nurses haven't seen such an item before, because I would imagine hospitals dealing with a lot of patients — yes, some might opt to do veins, but I'm sure they receive a lot of people who also go through chest ports as well. But is there no other competing product that serves a similar purpose?

Casey: There are. I think that long ago there weren't as many. It isn't that they didn't exist, and maybe there were more for adults than for children. And there are other companies out there. I think, first of all, we don't use zippers. So the other important part is that we've evolved from Velcro to plastic snaps, and we kept the plastic snap so you could still wear the shirt into a diagnostic test. In certain tests, you can't have any metal. So we have the plastic. It was also important to us to have an opening so all of the tubes could hang down, and you wouldn't be bothered for the rest of the day. And it's also really important to us to have the designs, and I think that differentiates us from many competitors. We do make adult designs, and I was recently at Fox Chase Cancer Center in Philadelphia with our shirts, and the response was extraordinary. It was everything that Katie and I had dreamed of when we first started this. Patients were thrilled. One woman, a patient, said to me, "Even when you're going through this, you still want to look cute." So the designs mattered. They actually had another type of port shirt in their gift shop, but people didn't purchase it. This was new to everybody walking by. And I think it was the designs. We had oncologists who wanted to buy a companion shirt to support their patients. So it was family members, to make life easier for them — one guy for his mom who was going through a lot of treatment. It was extraordinary. I think I went off topic, though.

Host: No, it's great. Thank you for sharing. Did you guys face any difficulties moving from homemade shirts to actual business products? You're talking with manufacturers. You said you guys designed it yourselves, so that's part of it, but have you had experience in designing before?

Casey: No. I'm telling you, blankets for the teachers and our friends, and pajama pants — that was about it. And I had basic sewing that I could sew the Velcro on. But very early on, I found a manufacturer in New York City. And she helped us with many of the samples and different iterations. So we had a lot of samples early on. We still do, right? But I'll let you address this part, the ongoing.

Katie: Oh, yes. It's still an ongoing transition, I would say. We've worked with a lot of different manufacturers and are still trying to figure out the best place and design for it to be manufactured consistently well. That's been an ongoing problem, just because the way that it's sewn is not how shirts are usually made, because it's sewn against the way that the fabric of the shirt is sewn. So we have had some difficulty in perfecting the design. And it's something we're still working on now. But we have a manufacturer that we're working with, and then we're also having samples made elsewhere so that we can kind of see all of our options. That was always the hard part, but it's coming through now. I think now we've solved it, which is very exciting.

Host: Going through the reactions and receptions of other professionals, community, and all — was that how you guys identified the customers, potential interested parties? Seems like a lot of people showed positive reaction to your product, and that seemed to be where you guys kind of extended to, just like community.

Katie: Yeah, I would say so. Just talking to people — and I think once we started sharing more about our product to more and more people, it's kind of shocking how many people relate to or understand that this is something a family member of theirs has needed, or maybe they have needed. And yeah, so I think just talking to more and more people, and talking to different nurses, hospitals, friends we know that have gone through something similar — that's where we've really started to notice how big the need was.

Casey: And so we did expand to adults quickly. Because older teens and young adults are a fast-growing population for contracting cancer, or having cancer — not contracting, but.

Katie: Yes, and a lot of adults have been very interested in our shirts and bought our shirts. Which I guess was not what we were originally focused on, but soon very quickly realized that they also needed the shirts. And we also have shirts for babies and toddlers, because their needs are a little bit different, their port placement.

Host: So they can still get ports?

Casey: They do. And again, it came from what we saw in the hospital. There was a little guy who, the minute they started taking off his shirt, he started to cry. He knew what was happening. And that kind of pushed me to make sure we asked the medical personnel where their ports are placed. And with babies, it's a different placement, and sometimes with toddlers. So we designed a different type of shirt for them.

Host: And I want to look at who your customers are these days. I assume to be patients, also their families and friends, and maybe parents of the kids. Can you share a little bit more about — do you already open, for example, pre-order, or are you already selling finished products? What stage are you in right now?

Katie: We've been selling, but because we've had some issues with manufacturers, we kind of stopped our marketing for a little bit and put it on pause so that we could get that solidified. But I would say now, yeah, we are selling. We're selling to families, like you said, patients, and then some organizations and hospitals have also bought from us, which has been amazing, because then they're able to give shirts to patients.

Host: That's great. And how are people finding you right now? Are they coming from social media posts, or you have your website? Or maybe you go to the hospitals, you talk to the patients. What are the main channels where you're having this purchase come in?

Katie: Yeah, social media's been great. And also, because we've been talking to different hospitals, and they put flyers for our shirts in their cancer centers, so that's also part of it. And also having these hospitals buy some shirts for events. And we've also attended events as well with the shirts to show people. So I would say that's mostly it. And we've had, as you said before, organizations purchase the shirts to give away.

Host: I've got to ask, was there ever a consideration to make Courage Tees a nonprofit organization versus for-profit? Seems like you could get a bit more easier collaboration with some of the other organizations if you're a nonprofit.

Katie: Yeah. We've mostly thought of this as a business. I think we have discussed looking into a nonprofit, but as a business, we've really found that we're able to have organizations and hospitals buy from us and then give to patients, and that's actually the best way to get our product to patients and to achieve that goal of making sure that family members and everyone can get shirts for the patients that need them. That just, I would say, has been the most effective model for our business. And I do find that we tend to give away a lot of shirts. We know that you need a shirt, we are going to give you a shirt. And we also have ideas for the future. We have some sort of nonprofit integration in our hopes for the future. Yeah, I don't know, do you want to speak more on that?

Casey: One was, if you wanted to purchase a shirt — I don't know if you've heard of Love Your Melon, the hats, buy one, get one free. So if you would like to purchase — and people actually have offered this already — can we purchase a shirt for you to give to someone in need? I don't know someone right now, but could we purchase a shirt and you know someone — which is true, we know plenty of people who need shirts. And also the idea down the road of: would it be possible that if there was a child or a person who needed a shirt, and maybe their class wanted to buy companion shirts to support them, how could we give part of that profit to the family themselves? That's, I think, one of the most important things we want to focus on in the future.

Host: Sharing a lot of the T-shirt side, I want to highlight what you guys did previously, which was the Michael's Way event. So this was an event where you guys put you guys' shirt on every kid that attended it, without a single family having to pay for them, right? You've mentioned interest in secondhand purchases and purchases for other patients that a customer may not even know. So in a way, it's an indirect donation, I would say. Would you say that's a way that you guys are thinking of in order to keep the prices down and share this benefit to as many people as possible?

Katie: Yeah, I would say that we definitely want to have a fund or some way for some people to get a shirt if they can't purchase one. For sure, we want to make it accessible for everyone. And then Michael's Way was really great, because Michael's Way bought the shirts for the patients at Children's Hospital of Philadelphia. Yeah, so I think we are just trying to figure out how best to do that, and working out ways where people can donate money for a patient to get a shirt, or organizations can buy for a patient to get a shirt.

Host: Okay. Moving on to competitors a little bit again. Is there really no other similar item on, say, bigger retail stores like at Target or Walmart that's — I don't know, $15, $30 — that does — Amazon has them for—

Casey: There are definitely many more manufacturers now, in the 10 years, 11 years since.

Katie: More than that. Thirteen years.

Host: What would you say is Courage Tees's strength over them? The community that you guys have already built, or something that—

Katie: Yeah, I would say our personal experience is a big part of it. We have the patient and parent/caregiver perspective, which is really powerful, because we understand not just the medical need of it, but also the need to have that shirt that has a design, or to have the companion shirt so you feel like you have a community around you. And we really try on our social media to inform people or give out information. And we had one video that went kind of viral on TikTok, and a lot of people in the comments were even sharing information with each other. So I think our goal is to not just have this be something that's functional and easy for patients to use, but also build a community where you can find other people who are going through something similar, and you can all be wearing these shirts, and you can feel super supported, and you can feel like you're still yourself. And I think that's a big differentiator from what we've seen otherwise.

Casey: Absolutely. I think it's a very isolating experience, and we would like to help people feel more connected in a positive way. And certainly, the fact that we're coming from two different perspectives, we talk through every decision, simply because I can't understand what Katie went through as a patient. And she doesn't know what we went through as a family.

Katie: Yeah, and during our treatment, our community was so integral. We just had incredible neighbors and people who wanted to help us, and we know how impactful that was for us, so we want, as much as we possibly can, to make that available to patients everywhere. And we think that the shirts and everything that they represent is a really powerful way to do that.

Host: Would you say that's the wedge against other adaptive apparels specially designed for clinical functions, or would you say there's additionally the fashion, the specific mechanism that it opens? Would you say they all equally contribute to the strength of the company?

Katie: I think they all kind of fit together to make Courage Tees just something that people want in a way that maybe they don't want these other products. They want them, but it's all of these different factors that are like, you are being supported with this shirt, and we're trying to make this treatment easier. We're trying to make you feel supported, as much yourself. I think they all kind of fit together.

Casey: I think so too. Certainly other manufacturers may have similar input, but we know that we want a shirt that's super soft for the patients. We want a shirt that's easily washable, because you're in that hospital so often. We want cute designs. We want to remind you that you are more than this disease, that you are more than the treatment. I think all of that. And the community part's super important for us too, as we build. We have something we've blogged about, and we also have it on our website, about what you can do to support your family, or what you can do as a parent, what you can do as a community member. And we encourage people to share their ideas as well. So you're right, it is a component of community as well.

Host: What are you guys' vision five years out? Are you guys planning on focusing more on building Courage Tees IP or the connections? And Katie, you mentioned possibly a fund where people can pool in money for other families that might not be able to purchase it by themselves.

Katie: I think all of that. Yeah, I think we see ourselves expanding in a lot of ways — in other adaptive clothing, in the companion shirts, in more partnerships with other organizations and hospitals — as well as, we would really love to see that community grow and hear not just our own voices and stories, but other people who are willing and want to share, so that they can also connect with one another.

Host: And I think we first knew you at the New Venture Seed Competition early this year. And I think you also went through that process the previous year, right? And what did that competition maybe help you improve your ideas, or what happened between the two competitions in 2025 and 2026? What changed, and how did you get help from that experience?

Katie: Yeah. I think the first time that I pitched, it was very new to me, so I didn't feel super confident, both talking in front of a room of people and also talking about my own experience. I think I was super nervous. And I think that I just learned so much throughout that experience, and I met so many people who were super excited about the business and willing to help me and wanted to see me succeed, that it felt very invigorating. And I was obviously very disappointed when I didn't make it to the finals that year. But then the following year, we just really worked to manufacture shirts and go to events and practice pitching again and again, and refine the product and get help. And all the pieces kind of just fell into place. And because we did it so much more, I think I gained a lot of confidence in talking about it and just being able to pitch. And I practiced. And because I had done it the first year, the second year I was like, "This is my last chance. I'm going to win. I have to win." And the previous winner, I had done an incubator program with as well, so I knew him, and I would practice with him. And one thing he said to me was, once he made it to the semifinals, he knew he was going to win, there was nothing that could stop him. And I kind of tried to adopt that mindset and just — I practiced nonstop, talked to people, got everyone's opinion that I possibly could. And so I think I just had a little bit more fire under me that second time around, as well as experience and practice and support.

Host: Yeah, that's great. And for the program itself, do they also provide some mentorship or connect you with some resources that might be helpful?

Katie: Yes, they're great. When you make it through to the semifinals, you go through — I think it's a five-week or six-week process — where you meet every Saturday, and they give you feedback on your pitch, or they give you feedback on your business model. And you talk with other founders about things that you could do better, and you practice. And there are three advisors in that program that you can meet with whenever, too, and they'll also refer you to other people that they think will be helpful to you as well. And even the judges in the quarterfinals — the first time I did it, I made it to the semifinals, but even my judge, before I made it to the semifinals, had had a personal experience as well, and knew exactly what I was talking about and wanted to help. So I would say, yeah, they offer so many resources and help, which was incredible.

Host: Yeah, that's amazing. And I think you've been studying journalism and working as a journalist, both at USC and some other outside-school organizations. And while you are running Courage Tees, how do these two experiences maybe feed into each other?

Katie: Yeah, I think that's a great question. I think that in both, communication is really key, and just being able to talk to people and communicate your own product or yourself is super important, which is something I learned in both scenarios. And then also, I think journalism has a lot to do with marketing as well. So I think I learned a lot of marketing strategies that we can even do ourselves.

Host: Moving on to the team. How does it feel, Katie, to have your mother as a co-founder, and how's the work broken down? So from what I'm seeing, the dynamic here is, Casey, you're providing the perspective and experience as a family member, supporter, whereas Katie, you're the survivor, the person at the spot. So how is it broken down? How does it feel?

Katie: It feels great. I think we've definitely had our spats, trying to — because we're mother-daughter, but now we're co-founders. So I think we definitely have had our how to maybe navigate communicating a little bit better and working together more effectively. But it's awesome, because it is like you said, we bounce all of our ideas off of each other. There's so many things that I am thinking about or about to do, and then I go to you, and you provide a perspective I didn't think about, just because you know more than me in a lot of scenarios. Different perspective. But yeah, I would say that we split the work evenly. But because we're family too, we know when the other person maybe needs a little bit more support. I don't know, do you have anything to add to that?

Casey: I am so grateful. I am just so thankful to do this business with Kate. To have the opportunity to see this be successful and do it with Katie is extraordinary.

Katie: Yeah, I think, especially because of all of our experience and everything that we've gone through, being able to do it together is even more incredible. And it brings everything back as you're going through it. For both of us, there's definitely working through what happened all those years ago and those experiences, and thinking about patients and families and wanting to make sure we're helpful and respectful of them. Yeah, it's been kind of weirdly healing, because we kind of have to talk about things that are hard to talk about in order to talk about the business and sell the shirt and be honest with our customers and transparent. So I think that's been a really great thing, that we've had to talk about things that are difficult for us to talk about.

Host: What are you guys seeing, looking forward to, in the next 12 to 24 months? So we've talked about the vision five years out, but what are some more tangible things that would be happening in the next two years? Obviously, you've talked about manufacturing difficulty, so I would assume that's one of the first challenges to tackle, but what else?

Katie: Yes, I think that we've almost figured that out. So now that we have that solidified, we really want to start — we have a lot of connections with hospitals who have wanted to buy from us, but we've kind of paused because we want to get this figured out. So I think reaching back out to them and having our shirts in hospitals. We have a few upcoming events as well. Yeah, getting shirts to hospitals. We also are about to start working with PRSC, which is an organization in Annenberg, and they do marketing for different companies, sometimes USC, but sometimes bigger companies as well. They're going to be doing marketing for us. So really being able to get that out to more customers, and getting our shirts into hospitals and organizations, are the most immediate tangible things that I see happening. And we're expanding the line.

Host: Just closing out the episode, could I ask you guys' advice for the audiences who would likely be the next generation of founders? Casey, as a parent who might have their children doing their startup, and Katie, someone who has survived through a difficulty — what advice would you give to these next generation of founders?

Katie: Well, I would say — I don't know. If you're a student, I would take an entrepreneurship class. I think that was really beneficial to me, because it made me feel like it was actually something tangible that I could do. But I think, in the words of Nike, just do it.

Casey: Do it before you're ready. Do it before you have everything figured out. Talk to people. People want to help you. People have great ideas — things that you may not have thought of. Just get it out there.

Katie: Yeah, I think that's a great point. You're never going to be ready. You just have to start, and it'll fall into place.

Host: Well, that's it for the episode. Thank you so much, guys.

Katie: Thank you so much for having us.

Casey: Thanks for having us. We're so happy to be here.