Barry Li: He Ran a $1K/Week “Dark Market” at 15 — Now He Teaches Kids to Out-Build AI 18VC Podcast · Episode 11 · July 2, 2026 Guests: Barry Li Source: https://www.18-vc.com/podcast/barry-li-omniapath Host: Barry, so to start with it, do you want to say hi and do a little bit of a self-introduction to our audience? Barry Li: Oh, sure. Yeah. Hi, guys. It's my honor to join Lucas and- Host: Yeah Barry Li: Phillips, the podcast 18VC, and I hope the best for the 18VC in the future. So, guys, my name's Barry, and I graduate from University of Michigan. I have a degree in two business major. One is a business, another is sports management. Sports always been my passion, and I'll talk a little bit more about this later on. So basically, I've started two ventures. So my first company, like a real company, registered like a C corp company, was back to my freshman year. I started my first educational consulting company. Then I slowly till pivot more like a youth VC style right now. And the second company I started was back to my college senior year. And, I got one of the VC backup in Santa Clara. So that's one of the reason I moved from Michigan to California. Host: Well, that's great. Let's rewind time a little bit, and why don't you take us back a little bit into your childhood period, right? Imagine now you're seeing your younger self. How would you describe the younger Barry? Barry Li: Oh, wow. That's a really good question. So think about like a younger self, I'll be actually really proud of my younger version of myself. Because basically, when I was around elementary school- or middle school- I have extremely a free will compared to my peers. I always think outside the box. Because of the traditional Chinese education, sometimes it is not that good to really think outside the box. But I always challenge the teacher, the parents, the peers about their perspective. Whatever I think is good, and they have a different opinion, even if that's teacher, even if that's the principal of the school- I still going to challenge them. So, because of the whole system-wise, I think I do face a lot of difficulties back to childhood. I still remember, I had a couple of conflicts with my teachers, with my peers, because my unique opinions. Even if everyone have the different opinions, and they say, like, "Okay, you're going to follow the certain rules inside schools." Host: Right. Barry Li: I just don't care. Host: Right. Barry Li: I just didn't care that much, and I just follow whatever I think is right. But after I grew a little bit older- Host: Yeah Barry Li: come to high school- Host: Yeah Barry Li: I understand more about the world. I understand about the boundaries. Here are some boundaries I can cross- and here are the boundary I cannot cross. For example, the legal things- and the rules from the certain states- Host: Yeah Barry Li: certain countries. Host: Yeah. Barry Li: I have a lot of better understanding- Host: Yeah Barry Li: about that. Host: Yeah. Barry Li: So, okay, come back to the question. When I look like a younger self- Host: Right Barry Li: younger Barry, like 12, 13 years old- Host: Right Barry Li: I would say just keep doing what you're doing right now. Host: Yeah. Barry Li: Just don't change. Host: And I mean, actually, echoing back to your sharing about your entrepreneurial spirit- Barry Li: Yeah Host: I think you're still carrying that forward up until this point, right? Barry Li: Yeah. Absolutely. Host: So what is something about you that has maybe changed a lot? So that's something about you that has not changed, right? That will to always challenge. But what is something about you that has actually changed a lot since you were a child? Barry Li: Oh, I think it changed so much. I think the most important things I think I changed was the stability and- Host: Stability Barry Li: like flexibility. And I was pretty stubborn to certain point of views. But once I understand more about the world, I understand there's a different way for different people and different things, so the stability, oh, sorry, the flexibility- was pretty high for now. And why I say stability is, before, it's very hard for me to stay in one things or one location- or stick with one friend- because there's too many thinking in my mind. Host: Right. Barry Li: So it's very hard for me to get distracted and defocused from the priorities. But now it's very easy for me to really focus on a couple of priorities and not trying to defocus from what's the most important things. Yeah. Host: And sort of were you basically forced to develop that kind of skill sets, or how did you train to get those? Barry Li: No, I think it's what the market taught me. Host: The market taught you. Barry Li: The market, the entrepreneurship experience, and just the people on the road. Host: Yeah. Barry Li: And there's a lot of things. Because myself have very strong my personal view of points. Host: Yes. Barry Li: So it's very easy for me to get a conflict with- Host: Yeah Barry Li: other certain things- Host: Yeah Barry Li: and the people at the beginning. So that really helped me to learn so much- Host: Yeah Barry Li: about the world and how to adapt to the world, how to best. Host: Yeah. I think one thing about being an entrepreneur is to make the right decision when you need to pivot. Barry Li: Absolutely. Host: And you need to be adaptive- Barry Li: Yes Host: if something didn't work out, I think. Yeah. Barry Li: Yes. So I think before, when I do something, I would say, "I have to do this thing- Host: Right Barry Li: really, really good, extremely good- before I pivot to other things." But now it's like with my gut feeling, I know when what's the point to pivot. Host: The timing, right. Yeah. Barry Li: To not pivot, more like- Host: Yeah Barry Li: iterates. Host: Yeah. Barry Li: Iterates- Host: Yeah Barry Li: from beginning, yeah. Host: Right. So my next question, people say environment, especially environment back in your childhood, can significantly shape who you are in future, right? Barry Li: 100%, yeah. Host: Could you tell us a little bit more about the environment where you were brought up? Barry Li: Yeah, 100%. So basically, for my elementary school and my middle school, I went to a traditional Chinese school. And for my high school, I went to a British high school, international British high school. Host: Okay. Barry Li: But in the period, I also traveled to Australia for my sixth grade. Host: Oh. Barry Li: For one semester, sixth grade. I think that helps me a lot. That's a education part. From like a family side, I think- Host: Yeah Barry Li: I have really like- Diverse family. Oh, awesome. So my family, we are from different cities and provinces-... in China. So I think it's really helped me to understand a lot about the cultures. From my parents, I think-... it's just super important, with my parents' education. I think just family education is everything. It's the best education in the world. My mom is a psychological therapist. The phone. Oh, bye bye. Bye bye. Yeah. So I think family education is the most important and efficient education than any other educations. And my parents, my mom, she's a psychological therapist-... for 21, 22 years. My dad, he's just C-suite in a-... company who went to IPO last decade. But, I think their education shaped the way I'm working. I think 90% of their education really shaped the way I'm working right now. Because my mom has a really different view of my education. When I was in elementary school, everyone was really hard to grind on the subjects- Yeah. Exams. Okay... like Chinese, English, Math, whatever. But my mom didn't force me to do anything. She just want me to do whatever I want to do. So at that time, what I want to do the most is play video game and just hang around, just running, play soccer, play basketball, just do anything but not study. And teacher worry a lot about me and-... relatives worry a lot about me. And even peers' parent worry so much about myself. But not your mom. But not my parents. They start to getting worried when I went to middle school, but for elementary school, they didn't. Here's something really interesting-... was I never study English, Math, and Chinese I think for five or six years. That's the main three subjects in China. Where'd you spend your time that others are studying those subjects? I don't think I can focus on the class. I really don't think I can focus on the class. I don't think I can focus for a long time to study. But here was something really interesting was my English was something like 20% of 100. I got 20 out of 100. My Chinese was like 50 out of 100. But my Math, if I study a little bit, I got 100 out of 100 for my Math. Ooh. So that was something really interesting, was I always got- Yeah... top, top grade for Math. Yeah. But I just didn't study Math too. I studied a little bit. Here's something I got. A pivot was for the middle school. My second year of my middle school, I start to pick up a little bit more about the hard educational subjects-... science, everything. For my middle school, I realized, oh, all my peers are doing so good. And- Yeah... here was a ranking stuff in China. Yeah. We have 1,000 students back to my middle school. And I was at ranking was like 900 out of 1,000. And my parents started to getting really worried about me. Yeah, definitely. Yeah. At that time, after my sophomore year of my middle school, I really, really started to pick up study. I studied super hard for half a year. I started to rank from 900 to 300. Oh. So I have a huge jump- Huge jump... after six months. Then I realized something. Those students, they studied so hard for 10 years. I only studied for six months. I can have the huge leap. Then I start to think, "Why? Why is it like this?" I realize, as long as someone are really locking, really want something, and really put effort to it, like 100% put effort to it- Yeah... you can get it. Yeah. Especially in study, like academia. If you put your heart to it, you will get a better grade. It's not like entrepreneurship. Entrepreneurship, you put everything to it- It's not guaranteed. Yeah... nothing guaranteed. Yeah. You put your heart to it, and you probably fail 99%- Everything fail... out of like, 99% of the time. Right. So basically, that was the time I started to pick up the academia. I think one of the thing was my parents didn't really let me just study. I have a lot of room in my brain. Right. And my brain cell developed really, really good because I constantly planning, running outside. So I have a lot of free will inside of me. Once I have so many defocuses. Once I put everything into one thing, I can do it really good. Got it. And inside the whole middle school, those one year to prepare for my Chinese external exam- Yeah... my parents did give me so much help. So, they support me any where. Whatever I want to, they still support me to do this. Yeah. So, basically what I learned from my youth, like teenagers was, parents love me. Parents support me whatever I do. They care so much about me, about my will. But they do care a lot about the boundaries. I need to be integrity and I need to-... follow the rules-... follow the legal things. That's the only thing they care. But other than that, they just let me do whatever- Explore... explore- Yeah... whatever I'm happy to do. So basically, my mom always have this analogy was like, every child is like a tree. So the tree is growing. They have a different type of tree because they are different type of seeds. Right. What the family and the parents will do, they're cutting off those trees going to widespread-... to make sure the tree going tall and high. Yeah. So that was my mom's analogy for me- I went for many, many years. Host: Yeah. Barry Li: I think that's my parents' education really, really shaped me in many ways. Host: Yeah. That's huge. I think my mom said something similar. Probably yours too. Barry Li: Yeah. Host: But speaking of entrepreneurship, you've been through five entrepreneurial attempts so far, and turned actually more than half of them into actual companies generating actual revenues, right? And the first one, if I remember it correctly, you were kind of doing like a dark- Barry Li: Dark Host: market business back in your junior high school, selling drink and snacks to hungry students in the campus. Barry Li: Yeah. Host: Because they're starving and there's no resource in food there. Barry Li: Yeah. Host: Tell us about the first thought that went through your mind when you realized that problem. Barry Li: Yeah, realized the problem was super easy. I was not junior, freshman. High school freshman. Host: Yeah. Barry Li: I just got to my new international British high school. I saw those senior kids, and they were extremely hungry after playing the football soccer and basketball. Every night, they come back to the student dorm once like they're extremely hungry. And our school, they didn't allow to have those side deliveries. And the deliveries wasn't that efficient as currently what we have right now. And there's no way for them to get food. They just constantly say they are hungry. Host: Yeah. Barry Li: So I just heard the demand, and I also studied the economics, supply and demand, right? If they have some demand- Host: Yeah Barry Li: I need to apply. I just to get supply to get the money. And then I learned a lot, it's like they have a demand. Someone need to give them supply. Host: Right. Barry Li: So basically, I bought everything from Alibaba every Friday. So we have enough supply for them every Monday. So every Monday they come back to the dorm, I have so much supply. Host: Yeah. Barry Li: Instant noodles- Host: Yeah Barry Li: sausage, like everything. So I think the margin was super high. Margin was like, 200%. Host: Man. Lucrative business. Barry Li: 200%. Because people are hungry. They're gonna- Host: Yeah Barry Li: they wouldn't pay anything. Also, we were in the elite- Host: Yeah Barry Li: British private school, so those kids has money too. So basically, I have the food here and, for example, the instant noodle, the price I bought was like one buck, or like 0.7 bucks. And what I sold was three bucks, four bucks. They're gonna buy it anyway. Host: Yeah. Barry Li: So that was the first time I realized as long as people really want something- Host: Yeah Barry Li: you can mark up the price as high as you want. Host: Absolutely. Barry Li: As long as they want it, right? So, I think I made approximately 1,000 per week. Host: Wow. Barry Li: That was a lot as a high school. Host: That's huge. Barry Li: That's huge as a high school student. I keep doing this for four months. Four to- Host: Yeah Barry Li: four or five months. Then the school principal and- Host: Yeah. It got shut down, right? Barry Li: Yeah, it got shut down. It was too big. Host: Yeah. Barry Li: You gotta, you just have to shut it down. Host: Yeah. Barry Li: And they do start their own- Host: Yeah Barry Li: like dining hall after they saw me doing this. Host: Yeah. And you mentioned they also started their own vending machines program also. Barry Li: Yeah. They also have... Yeah. Host: So- Barry Li: I think they also got their two or three new vending... Like the brand new vending machines- Host: Yeah Barry Li: just to feed the students. They also marked extremely expensive in the vending machine. I remember the drink is also like two or three times than the normal price. Host: But still, at least you play an important role in helping the school realize there's that problem- Barry Li: Yeah, yeah Host: and adopting some changes, right? Barry Li: Yeah. Because I think our schools have a lot of free will, too. They didn't give me- Host: Yeah Barry Li: any punishment or anything. They just- Host: Oh Barry Li: they said, "Please don't do it." It's too big. Host: Yeah. But I'm more curious, were you frustrated by how your first entrepreneurial attempt went? And were you frustrated by how it ended, basically? Barry Li: How it ended? Host: Yeah. How it ended. Like it just got shut down. You couldn't make any more money, right? Barry Li: No, 100%. I 100% feel a little bit frustrated, but I think it's fine because I just want to try anyway. Yeah. I think a little bit. Just... Because I think back to the family education. People need to be integrity and need to follow the rules. Basically, if they say so, I agree with it and I'm not going to open it again. So I think that's the way I'm doing the business right now. If I promise something, I'll do it. If I didn't promise, I'm not going to do it. Host: Right. And another question about your entrepreneurial attempts. I think all of your entrepreneurial attempts have student populations, right? As the center of target audience, whether it's from your underground business to soccer coach, to transfer consultation to OMNIAPATH, and even to- Barry Li: Wov3 Host: Wov3, right? Barry Li: Yeah. Host: Why do you want to stick with this population particularly? Barry Li: Oh, that's actually a really good observation. I didn't really think about that deep now. Yes. So why I'm sticking with students, I think I deeply care about education, I deeply care about students. That's the first thing. That's my passion, and that's what I've been doing for 10 years. Another thing is because I just graduated. Those students are my peers. I just start with my peers. It's just easier for me to get started. I think that's a really good question. And also, I think because when I start entrepreneurship since very young age, the target audiences I can really reach is a students group. It's very hard for 18 years old kids- Host: Right Barry Li: to sell things to 40 years old adults. But it's very easy for me to convince my peers, my friends to, "You want to buy this? You want to try this?" Host: Yeah. Barry Li: "I've been working on this," right? Host: Yeah. Barry Li: "If you trust me, just please come." Host: Yeah. Barry Li: Right? I think one of the things, I was soccer captain back to high school. Soccer captain in Michigan club soccer too. Host: You have a lot of leverage. Barry Li: Yeah. I have a lot of leverage. People trust me, trust my title, trust my leadership. Host: Right. Barry Li: And I was like, "Do you want to try this?" If they like it, and yeah- Host: Yeah Barry Li: why not? Host: Yeah. You already know how to commercialize your influence at that point- Barry Li: Yeah Host: at a young age. Barry Li: I think just easier for me to get- Host: True Barry Li: to get it started. But right now, our client right now is parents- Host: Yeah Barry Li: the adults- Host: Absolutely Barry Li: it's very diversified right now. Yeah. Host: Yeah. And I think we can move on a little bit to Omnia's path, which- you are building the business. Barry Li: Yeah. Host: And I do remember you started that as actually a university admission consulting- Barry Li: Yes Host: service, and later you kind of pivoted to a entrepreneurial education. Barry Li: Yeah. Host: Can you tell us a little bit why? What was the original story, and how did you decide to make the pivot? Barry Li: Yeah. So at the beginning, that was my first legit business- LLC and a C corp. That's the first time. That was the first time I understand about the business. I really started the company, and we have very elite package with the students who want to transfer or who want to- apply for the US college. So basically, I hire some ex admission officers from Dartmouth, Columbia, and they join my group, and we started become a team. We provide very tailored services- for each students. So we have a premium package. Our premium package was like 20 to 30,000 per students. So at the peak years, we had 25 to 30 students. That was really the first bootstrap fund I got myself. I didn't have any VC backup, just myself doing this. I think the profit-wise, that was my first 100K- put in my pocket after three years grinding on the services. So after three years, move on to my junior years. That was first time I started to think about pivoting from different services because first was like the whole technology, the whole AI era started to showing up, emerging. First time I used a ChatGPT 3.5 or ChatGPT 3, I was really shocking. I was just shocked. I was studying a CS class back to Michigan. That was the first time I studied Python. I used a code. It took me a lot of time to- to learn at first. Host: Yeah. Barry Li: Then I used the ChatGPT 3.5. I was like, "That's crazy." Host: Instant. Barry Li: Yeah. Instant. They can do anything. And I also put my student's essay and student portfolio. Host: Yeah. Barry Li: I feed it to ChatGPT 3.5. I was like, "What? They can do anything the human can do." Host: Yeah. Barry Li: That's going to be the future. I was like, "Okay, I have to pivot." That was the first reason for me to think about pivoting. Also, that was my first pivoting ever in my business. Because before, the business was I start and- start and make some money, something happen. And this was like I made some decent money, something happened. Not thinking to end it, but use what I have the resources to iterate on to the second level. So as I keep moving on, I think another big things happened was my student, I helped them to transfer to really good schools. Host: Right. Barry Li: Like Ivy League schools. After they graduated, they still cannot find a job. After they graduated, they still don't know what to do. Some of them a little bit depressed because their skills, their knowledge got wiped out by the AI. Host: Yeah. Yeah. Barry Li: They didn't actively adopt for the AI. He or she didn't be like AI native- Host: Sure Barry Li: person. Host: Yeah. Barry Li: And so he or she just got wiped out by the market. That's what happened right now, too. If you are not- Host: Yeah. Yeah Barry Li: AI native founder, you going to be wipe out for sure. Host: Yeah. Barry Li: I pretty much guarantee you're going to be wipe out. If you do not use AI, you're going to be wiped out. Host: Feel it already. Barry Li: Yeah. And that was a second event. And then the third event was something I decide to really close my first- consulting business, was my ex admission officer friends. They couldn't find a job, too. Host: Oh. Barry Li: Because AI. Because they were basically help student to tailor the essays, right? Host: Yeah. Barry Li: Tailor essays, help them to- Host: Right Barry Li: do their portfolio, and build the portfolio and do the application. They are forced to pivot to other things. Some of them can pivot, some of them cannot. I was like, "I have to do something to let everyone understand how to use AI to start a business." Everyone has the ability, should have the opportunity to use AI to be very creative about what you are thinking, to become a real business, to find a product market fit, and eventually go to market and raise a fund, or you bootstrap the things. I think it's very easy with the Claude and with the Gemini, with the ChatGPT right now. If you want to build a software, that's extremely easy. And I'm not technical founder, I don't have strong CS background, but it's just super easy for me to create like a 20 applications in clouds in one afternoon, right? If I don't understand about how to use the AI, if I have a creative thinking- Host: Yeah Barry Li: designing thinking. Host: Yep. Barry Li: Design thinking about what you are thinking and eventually make your thinking to a real product or services, right? So that was the way I start to pivot. I was like, because the three major event happened, I start to pivot to something like, I want to help everyone understand about entrepreneurship. Because I think solo practitioner, solo founders, solo part-time contractors, whatever, going to be the future. Everyone will have their own small business. Host: Yeah. Barry Li: Solo founder will be the small business. Host: Definitely. Barry Li: So we call OPC, right? One- Host: One person company Barry Li: person company. Host: Yeah. Barry Li: Yeah. One person company going to become reality very soon. As a solo or one person, you can be one or two or one or three, but you're going to- Host: Yeah. Barry Li: it's going to be smaller and smaller. Host: Yeah. Barry Li: I think this big tech corporate going to survive for sure. For normal humans, we're going to have more and more- Absolutely... and more solo practitioners, solo founders. Yeah. So that was my vision for the future. And I tried a lot about different age groups and different ICPs. I tried adults who have the money, want to do something. I tried the adults who does not have the capital, but get laid off from the big corporates. I also tried to teach the young kids, young entrepreneurs. I realize, I think the higher successful rates is younger students. The younger they are, is easier for them to pick up entrepreneurship. Because entrepreneurship means you need to think everything. You need to think outside the box. You need to really understand about the risk and you be willing to de-risk what is happening, and eventually take some risks for you to keep going. Once you... Sorry, go ahead. Yeah. Is it because the younger children are less conservative and less- Yeah... risk-averse, and also they're more coachable, I think it's- Yes. Because younger kids, they never be shaped by the toxic- Yeah... corporation environments. Culture. They didn't have anything really controls them now. Yeah. But once you really step into big companies or once you actually go to the real society stuff- Yeah... you understand how harsh the world is and how difficult it is. And people get scared. People get afraid of- Yeah... trying things. For adults, it's just getting harder and harder to really step out of the comfort zone. But for younger kids, it's like something, they think, "Oh, that's not good." They will iterate in two seconds. Very fast. Yeah. Yeah, very fast. But for adults, if there's something they think, "Oh, this thing is not good, let me try it again." And they try a couple of times, and they fail-... they stop trying. Okay, think about this. To myself, I really started to think about business when I was 17 or 16 years old. The chance I can fail was like- Yeah... each business is two or three years, right? Yeah. The chance I can fail was like three or four times. Right. After three or four times, I'm 24, 25. But if the adults start business at 35 years old, and they have a family, they have a kids- Yeah, you don't have any time... they have a wife or husbands, they have elderlies to- Take care of... take care of. So basically, the chance for them to fail, if they're going to fail four or five times after 35, four or five times, they're going to be 50 years old. Yeah. They don't have any chance to really give them much time to adapt, to iterate on it. And they need to think of too many things. Too many things. Yeah. Because for me, I start a business, I got travel to Singapore. I'm going to travel to Singapore. Yeah. If I have a wife and kids, I'm going to travel to Singapore for three months? That's crazy. Yeah. I cannot travel to Singapore for three months. Yeah. Definitely. So that's just what I learned throughout the whole experience of my entrepreneurship. I think the younger they understand about entrepreneurship mindsets, it's easier for them to become successful inside the entrepreneurship once they come, after they graduate from college or now even graduate from high school. So, that was the real data I've been working on after four or five years doing OMNIAPATH. Yeah. I think you are actually keying in the real essence of education because before AI comes, basically everybody was learning some skills that they can plug into a huge corporation- Right, yeah... finish a certain task, but they actually lack the overall well-rounded ability- Yes... to do their own business or start their own venture. Now they are being distilled into skills- Yeah... that machines can use, right? I think there only be two type of person gonna survive in the future. So one person is super well-rounded. They can do anything with AI. It's like they do operation, do marketing, do sales, anything with AI. Whatever you need, that person can do it. Yeah. But they don't go super deep to anything. But it's fine. They go certain deep to all the skills. Super well-rounded. That's one person. I think the second type of person gonna survive is inside one niche, go fucking deep. Right. So deep into one niche. Yeah. Only that person have the expertise to understand about the niche. Yeah. And even if people use AI or anything, they cannot go that deep. But that person knows everything about one industries- Right... one niche industries. Right. So I think that's gonna be two type of person gonna survive or-... be successful in the future. But both of them need to understand about how to use AI. So that's kind of two person we are looking for now. That's kind of two person we are educating for right now. Yeah, definitely. And I think you are doing this business, this entrepreneurial education, because of the traditional universities or traditional education system wasn't catching up with the trend. They are lagging behind, and there's a opportunity for you to actually fill up the gap. Yeah. And can you tell us a little bit more about how actually OMNIAPATH was teaching the students, and how do you fill up the gap? Yeah. That's really good question. So basically, I still think the traditional university have a lot of value. That's still my first point was, I'm not saying university is finished. Yeah, fellas, don't drop out. University is drop out. I still think university has a lot of values because they provide the hub for student to socialize. Yeah, yeah. They provide the hub- Absolutely... for student to keep on the schedule, to meet all the talents. It basically like the best talent pool- Yeah... inside university, right? So why apply for YC? Because you want to apply another- It's the network... talented pool. Right. So university have really huge value. Still huge value. I think the degree have a certain value-... because that's the title for your life, right? I still saying I'm a University of Michigan student. Yes. You guys gonna say you're a USC student- USC, yes... for life. Yes. So I still saying university have a lot of value for each students. But what we are providing is something extra So basically, I designed the whole curriculums myself, the core pillars. Host: Yeah. Tell us about it. Barry Li: So basically, we have six pillars of our whole curriculums. We have a different service and products- but always in the six pillars. So the first pillar is you need to have the entrepreneurship mindsets. You need to understand how to sell, how to pitch. So for example, what I'm doing, I'm still pitching OMNIAPATH. I'm pitching OMNIAPATH two thousand, three thousand times. Each time pitching was like the first time pitching for the Omniapath, even for Wov3, and even for myself, right? I'm pretty sure if you guys are passionate about 18VC, you guys going to pitch 18VC- Host: Yeah Barry Li: every single time like the first time you ever pitch- Host: Right Barry Li: about it. Host: Yes. Barry Li: So the first pillar, how to pitch, how to sell yourself, how to sell your product, that's the most important things. You need to sell yourself. You need to let people understand about you, understand about what you are doing. Second pillar is finding the market gap. You need to find the problem inside the society, inside the world, and you provide a solution for that problem, right? That's the second pillar. The third pillar was like a student like the most. It's I think a little bit liberal, but I like it a lot. It's like we help student understand about the relationship between entrepreneurship and society responsibilities. So basically, you need to create something positive to the world- Host: Yeah Barry Li: so the world can understand about your benefits you're providing to the world, so then your customer in the world will give the money back. Then you make a long-term money. You don't make short-term quick money- you make long-term money, because you want to provide something good for the society and the world, the world give it back to you. Host: Yeah. Barry Li: That's our third pillar. Host: You're really cultivating the sense of idea of creating or running or managing business for a greater societal values in the minds of those next generations. Barry Li: Yes. So I think that's something very important for them to know, have the entrepreneurship spirits. Host: Yeah. Barry Li: It's, okay, have the founder spirit. You need to become like a conviction. You need to be aggressive. That's good too, but what I really want to emphasize, you need to have entrepreneurship spirits, entrepreneurship mindsets, so you can do long-term thing, right? Think about Elon Musk, Steve Jobs, or- Host: Yeah Barry Li: Jason Huang. Basically, they're doing one business for 30, 40 years, right? Host: Yeah. Barry Li: Jason doing Nvidia for 40 years, right? That's crazy. Fifty. They're going to do- Host: Yeah Barry Li: 50, 60, 70 years. Host: Yeah. Barry Li: Well, think about Warren Buffett or Charlie Munger. Host: Yeah. Barry Li: They do Berkshire Hathaway for how many years? Ninety... No, 80 years, right? Host: Half their life, yeah. Barry Li: Yeah. Most of their life. So they all play long-term game. None of them play short-term game. Short-term game going to be wiped out, because the market are changing all the time. If you're going to always change and chase for those market change- you're going to be wiped out. And the market going to be changing faster and faster and faster. Host: Yeah. Barry Li: So what we really emphasized on the third pillar was let the students, let the young kids to really understand about responsibility to do long-term thing, to do good things for the society- to make society better. Host: Yeah. Barry Li: Make the society happy, better, and then could be wealth. Host: Yeah. Barry Li: They could be wealthier. So on the third pillar, we also emphasize something about the relationship between you and the money. So basically, here's two types of rich. So one is you have a lot of money- another, you have a lot of wealth. So what we teach them is about you need to- Host: The wealth Barry Li: gather your wealth. So the wealth is something like you have time, you are happy- you have money, you have good friendship with your peers. Host: Yes, yeah. Barry Li: You have very good relationship with your parents. So we want each of students, each of our alumni to be wealthy instead of rich. Just rich. Rich is good- Host: Yeah Barry Li: but I would prefer them to be more wealthier, right? Host: Yeah. Again, echoing back to your point of being a whole well-rounded person criteria, right? Barry Li: Yes. Host: Which is where the term Omnia came from, right? Barry Li: Yes. Host: It's a Latin word for- Barry Li: Everything Host: everything. Barry Li: Yeah. Host: Yeah. Barry Li: Everything with a path, right? It's a path to go with everything. But anyway, come back to the point, that's our third pillar. And our fourth pillar is become AI native. Become as AI native as possible. It's like your workflow and your AI agents, even if as little as your website, your applications, you have to build with AI. You cannot build by hand. You need to understand how to build by hand, but you need to use AI to leverage those things, right? So we partner with NVIDIA teachers, and those NVIDIA teachers- will come to our- Host: Yeah, I saw Barry Li: in-person boot camp, use DGX Spark, teach them how to use AI PC. We also teach them how to use OpenCloud- more AI agent stuff. So basically, help them to understand about how to be AI native. So the fifth pillar is go to market. That's the thing I care the most, and I think that's one of the unfair advantage, is really go to market and find a product market fit. So for the fifth pillar, they understand about market, and they want to be good entrepreneurs, and you understand about AI, and you know how to pitch, but you need to find the product market fit, right? So I think that's the most important thing, you can make money. So for the fifth pillar is the product market fit. If you hit the product market fit, the money will come, for sure. Host: Yeah. Barry Li: And then the sixth pillar is a little bit come back to the pitch- the first pillar. Sixth pillar and the first pillar is connected. Host: Yeah. Barry Li: So sixth pillar is help them to write the pitch deck, help them to- get- Host: Raise fund Barry Li: raise fund, right? Basically- Host: More practical stuff Barry Li: business proposal and- Host: Yeah Barry Li: raise fund, like a pitch to the real investor. Host: Yeah. Barry Li: They come back to the pitch. So the sixth pillar is like a loop. Host: Yeah. Barry Li: It's a consistent loop. Host: Yeah. Barry Li: And so if you understand on the sixth pillar, and you try this from zero to one, about one business, the first business, 99.99% you're going to fail for the first business because you're too young. But if you understand about the entrepreneurship, you can keep doing like for the second time, third time, fourth time, fifth time. Eventually, you're going to succeed Host: Yes. Barry Li: Yeah. Host: And I do echo with what you're saying. Basically, being a founder is a training process, right? Barry Li: Yeah. Host: You need to practice to be a founder. You don't come up nowhere and just be a good founder at the first time. Barry Li: Yes. Host: And I think there's a word called the compounding effect of being a founder. Barry Li: Yeah. Host: Yeah, and- Barry Li: Yeah. That's the most important thing for compounding effect. It's super, super important for the young kids to understand- Host: Yeah Barry Li: about it, because everything you do is an asset, and you need to keep the good asset and keep compounding. Keep iterating, compounding from the asset. Eventually, you will hit an exponential growth. So entrepreneurship is like this and eventually Host: Yeah Barry Li: skyrocket. Host: Yeah. It's always nonlinear at certain- Barry Li: Yeah Host: point. And are you going to actually kind of being a, I would say, incubator or angel kind of investor kind of role in this camp after they finish the program? Are you going to support these students? For example, if they have a good idea during the program, do you provide additional support to help them- Barry Li: Yeah Host: make it to a real business afterwards? Barry Li: Yeah, so basically that's what we are trying for next step. So I think OMNIAPATH 1.0 is really, really solid right now. So for OMNIAPATH 2.0 is what we've been trying really hard. But I think, as I said, I need to hit my own PMF, product market fit. They are still students and their priority- Host: Yes Barry Li: is still taking the exams. Host: Yes. Barry Li: What we can do, the most is we are currently doing a long-term, one-on-one project. Like a individual incubation. So basically, they have a really good idea. We have our own foundation. We're going to invest on that, and we have a one-on-one coaching session with them. Host: Yeah. Barry Li: Yeah. So that's the OMNIAPATH 2.0 we are building right now. But I still believe in a successful founder- Host: Right Barry Li: it's extremely hard to really find a successful founder at a really young age. Host: Yeah. Yeah. Barry Li: So what we are doing right now is still we want to keep us educational. Host: Yeah. Barry Li: So just for them to- Host: Yeah Barry Li: understand about it. Host: Yeah. Barry Li: Eventually, after two or three years, they graduate from a high school and a college. If they really, really have such good founder, it's very easy for us to just link the real VC to them. Host: Yeah. Well, I don't want to intentionally roast you, Barry, but there have been critiques on so-called entrepreneurship program or boot camps like this in China- Barry Li: Yeah Host: where people arguing that the owners of the boot camp are purely just feeding on parents' anxiety or their overestimated expectation on their kids, right? They're worrying their kids might be jobless and unemployed going forward. What's your take on that? Barry Li: I think that's a really, really good point because we do a lot of competitive research, and we have a lot of competitors doing something like that. But what we are trying to do is we just want to do the best pure educational program. If they think the money is worth it- and they can pay. If they don't think it's worth it, it's fine. And we really don't want to leverage their anxiety- and to make the quick cash for them because, I also used my own six spirit to start- Host: Yeah Barry Li: my own company, right? Host: Yeah. Barry Li: So basically I really wish those parents see the real value of the founder, me, and see the real value- of the program, the real value of the mentors, our mission, visions, and they think, it's just a value exchange, right? It's impossible to provide such good services without- Host: Right Barry Li: paying anything. Host: Right. Barry Li: If they think that's worth it, just go ahead. If they don't think it's worth it, it's fine. Host: Yeah. Barry Li: Yeah. Host: I was actually chatting with Philip the other day, and we're saying that there could be immense demand for things like what you're doing, like entrepreneurship education boot camp, is because there's a lack of so-called experienced-based learning layer in China, and what we mean maybe things like hackathons. Do you think that's valid or...? Barry Li: I'm sorry, I didn't get the question. Like hackathon? Host: Yeah. Do you think there would be huge demand for things like entrepreneurship education- Barry Li: Oh Host: in China? It's because of there's lack of like- Barry Li: In China or in the world? Host: Yeah, in China. Barry Li: In China- Host: Yeah Barry Li: 100%. In the world, yes, too. Because, as I said, it's like the world is about solo founders in the future. Host: Yeah. Barry Li: And no school or no institution have a really, really legit program teach about entrepreneurship- Host: Yeah Barry Li: because it's really hard to teach. Host: Yeah. Barry Li: What the traditional system are doing is basically they're educating the kids to become good employees. They become good workers. Because once you become a good workers, the whole society, the whole country can be stable because- Host: Yeah Barry Li: you're a good worker just doing your own job, right? Host: Yeah. Barry Li: But the whole society and the world keep changing constantly in the future. Think about for huge event, huge period, back to 100 years. So internet took like 20 years to really develop, and the laptop, the phone took 10 to 15 years. AI took like one night to develop AI. But in the future, with AI, there's more and more those called black swan things are happen. Host: Yes. Barry Li: More and more black swan things are happening- Host: Yes Barry Li: in the future. So, they need something. Everyone are required to understand about entrepreneurship. So whatever the things that happens, they can be super stable and doing their own things. Whatever the outside happening, whatever the world's changing, they are super stable, just doing something they're passionate about. And they can make the money to live, they can raise a family, whatever. But I think there will be much, much higher demands- Host: Yeah Barry Li: in the future about entrepreneurship, about how to use AI- Host: Yes Barry Li: and entrepreneurship in the future. Host: And to become a generalist. I think you talk about importance of... You actually stress in a way that you said the future belongs to generalists, not specialists. Barry Li: No, I think it belongs to two. Host: Belongs to both. Barry Li: One person is well-rounded person, another is going very deep. Host: I see. Barry Li: But you cannot be medium deep. Medium deep are easier to be replaced. Host: Yeah. Barry Li: If you go super deep, it is impossible to replace you. Host: Yeah. Barry Li: Yeah. Host: Yeah. Okay. I actually got another question on why actually you start that entrepreneurial education back in China, not in US. And is it because... From my understanding, the Chinese society, they are less kind of encouraging to take- Barry Li: Yeah Host: risk and less encouraging in- Barry Li: It's going to be hard Host: entrepreneurial, like doing startups and basically also people are a little bit more conservative in this extent. Barry Li: Yeah. Host: Why do you decide to do that in China instead of here? Maybe people are more open to- Barry Li: That's a really good question. A lot of people are trying to convince me doing things in the US. Which I'm going to do in the future. But why choose Chinese market first? Because I know that market really, really well. I know that market, what they're experiencing, and what they're facing right now. And also I have more resources- like distribution channels- in China. That's the most important thing about distribution channels. Distribution channel in the future is everything. Host: Yeah. Barry Li: Because the product going to be all over the place, as I said- it will be also- Host: Building things easy with AI right now. Barry Li: It's easier with AI to have all the product and services. Host: Yeah. Barry Li: And whatever your product, however good your product is, you still need to have a super good distribution channels. Host: Yeah, definitely. Barry Li: So in China I have a couple of really good distribution channels- and they understand about my vision- and they do believe my vision. And as I said, I think if we have a lot of American audiences, but as I said, don't really underestimate the power about Chinese students and- don't underestimate it about how much they can take the risk and how smart they are. Host: Yeah. Barry Li: So basically I think they are for the Asian kids. They have a super, super solid, the science, math and the language. Host: Yeah. Definitely. Barry Li: The foundation is super, super good. The thing they are lacking of for now, just for now, is their free will and the- Host: Yeah Barry Li: entrepreneurial thinking- Host: Expression Barry Li: thinking outside the box- because they are so focused on study one or two subjects- Host: Yeah Barry Li: they don't have the time to explore other things. Host: Right. Definitely. Barry Li: Once we open a small door for them- Host: Yeah Barry Li: to explore about things, they're going to go crazy. Host: Yeah. Barry Li: Because they have so many things inside their stomach. Host: Yeah. Barry Li: They have so many skills. They have so much thinking inside of one person. Host: Yeah. Barry Li: We just need to open a small door for them to leverage about what they have, their knowledge they have. So I strongly believe the Chinese market, I strongly believe the whole Asian market in the future. Host: Yeah. I think we were talking about the importance of building out a supply chain, figuring and understanding more about the supply chain. I think you actually mentioned that your first entrepreneur attempt back in your high school kind of helped you understand more about supply chain. And so it's more like a loop, right? Barry Li: Yeah. I think everything's connected. You just mentioned compounding effects. That's everything's connected. So, the things I was doing, I didn't realize that was a supply chain. Host: Yeah, okay. Barry Li: I didn't realize that was supply or demand. I didn't know that was entrepreneurship experience. I didn't know that was my first business. The time I started, I didn't know. After five years, I look back, that was the first time I started business, right? It's like the things you were doing, you didn't realize, but there'll be a compounding effect in the future. Host: Yeah. Barry Li: I didn't understand about supply chain at all, but once I understand the concept of supply chain, back to my business school in Michigan- I was like, "Oh, that was the supply chain I studied." Host: Yeah. Barry Li: Yeah. Host: Yeah, I do remember there was a quote from Steve Jobs many years ago in the Stanford graduation ceremony- mentioning that you can only connect the dots when you're looking back. Barry Li: Yeah. Host: You don't know what actually going to happen in the future, but one day you will say- Barry Li: Exactly Host: "Oh, actually, that all makes sense." Barry Li: Yes. Host: Yeah. Tell us a little bit about Hacker Dojo. I think you're right now sitting on the advisor role at Hacker Dojo, right? And you're actually- Barry Li: Yeah Host: helping them with their first cohort accelerator program. Barry Li: Yeah. So we're creating my visionary accelerator programs inside Hacker Dojo right now. So why I'm choosing Hacker Dojo- is because I think the place is fascinating. You guys can join next week. You understand about it. So basically that was very community-based, local-based founders. They are now the talents, those genius, like what Sequoia, ACC and YC are trying looking for. They're not genius, but they are very pure. Host: Pure. Barry Li: They are very hardworking. They are super hardworking people. Everything in their mind is doing business good. They don't have much noises. They only have one signal what they are doing. That's really make me a little bit emotional to see them- what they are doing. It's like they'd be so focused on one thing for years. But what, the things they are lacking was like, they don't understand about business. They don't understand how to go to market. They just need some support and help to understand about what is a founder conviction, right? So those founders I met at the beginning, it was like, when people are saying like... I'm telling them, "Go to pitch. Go outside. Just go pitch." And they was like, "Oh, no, no, no." After a couple of weeks and they could be able to pitch to anyone. So, I think next week, Saturday, we'll have around 100 people each- Host: Nice Barry Li: in the audiences. Host: Nice. Barry Li: Please come join us and you guys will see the vibe. Host: Absolutely. That was kind of like what you were doing for OMNIAPATH, right? It's just different age group. Barry Li: Basically same thing. Host: Yeah. Barry Li: I think different curriculums- but the core, the vision- Host: Yeah Barry Li: is the same thing. Host: Yeah. Barry Li: I think the whole curriculum's a lot different now because OMNIAPATH is a- Host: Yes, for younger generation Barry Li: younger, 15-years-old kids Host: Yeah. Yeah Barry Li: right? But for them, it's like 35, 40 years old. Host: They're getting real. Barry Li: Yeah. Host: Yeah. Barry Li: They... Yeah, they are getting real, and they don't have much experience of entrepreneurship if they start a business of 35 or 40 years old. But I do think for the future, everyone with AI, everyone deserve a opportunity, a chance to start a business. Whatever the age is. Like my dad, he's 56 years old this year. He tried to start his business, uh- Host: At this age? Barry Li: At this age. Host: A new business? Barry Li: A new business. Host: Oh. Barry Li: A business- Host: Impressive Barry Li: he does make like... I think he made 20,000 with his new business- in two months. Host: Oh. Barry Li: He just started- Host: Very good Barry Li: he just started a brand new business. I just think everyone deserve a chance- Host: A second, yeah Barry Li: to start like a business. Even like, I think if you look at Jason. Jason is a Host: Right. Right, right Barry Li: I think he's still keep working- Host: Yeah Barry Li: on the new ventures. Host: I think we can go to some of these wrap-up questions. Barry Li: Yeah, yeah. Host: Yeah, yeah. Barry Li: A drop-out question, yeah. Host: We'll just go to challenges. Barry Li: Yeah, yeah. Cool. Host: You can just go ahead. Barry Li: Okay. Host: I'll just pick one question. So a lot of your business partner came and went, right? I think you mentioned like 30 you met joined, but then you're the only one that stay. Barry Li: Yeah. Host: What did that... I just wondering, what did that teach you about reading people from the early on and especially about picking the right partners? Barry Li: Wow, that's... That helped me so much. That actually helped me so, so much. After the years I see, like, the partners join and go- Host: Yeah Barry Li: right? I realized... So I think the entrepreneurship, like the founders, are pretty selective by the market. Host: Yeah. Barry Li: Not by anyone, by the market. So the market fluctuating every day, the market change every day, the people are change every day. So once the... Some people, once they see the downside of the market, they'll be afraid of the market. Be scared of the market. They'll be scared of, like, there's no stability of their life, and they want to have a super stable life, stable salary, everything, right? So they will step outside of the... They'll step out of the entrepreneurship. And another thing, I think the entrepreneurship is super hard. Most of the people, they don't have enough time for them. Host: Right. Barry Li: And they don't have enough courage for them- Host: Right Barry Li: to really lock in one thing for a long time. Host: Right. Barry Li: As I mentioned, it's like entrepreneurship, to make money by entrepreneurship is like this, this, this, and then exponential growth. But beginning two to three years extremely hard. It's extremely hard to make the first 100K. So, at that time I see people join, come and go, come and go, I realize something. It's like entrepreneurship is a selective thing. Only certain type of people with those heart, with those characters, they can survive inside the entrepreneurship. I don't think everyone should become entrepreneurship, but I do think everyone need to have the entrepreneurship mindsets in the future. Even if you're join a big corporates and... You still need to have the entrepreneurship mindset. So back up, like, coming back to the how... You asked my reading people, right? Host: Yeah. Barry Li: Yeah. I think it helped me so much with entrepreneurship. I just create those gut feeling with the people. Certain people I can trust, certain people I will work with, certain people, I think that person might keep doing for a little bit long time. Host: Right. Barry Li: That person going to quit- on the road after six months. I just have this ability to read certain founders. Host: Okay. Barry Li: And also because I'm doing OMNIAPATH and doing Hacker Dojo accelerators- Host: Right, right Barry Li: I saw those so many founders. I just can tell if that founder have the character to- Host: So those turn out to be- Barry Li: to keep surviving Host: accurate predictions or? Barry Li: Not like completely accurate- Host: Okay Barry Li: but I just have my own gut- Host: Gut feeling Barry Li: gut feeling thinking about it. Because I do experience, right? I do experience like- Host: Yeah Barry Li: I think I work closely with 40 people- Host: Wow Barry Li: in total inside my two companies. And really closely, just one on one closely, 40 people. Come and go, come and go. Host: Wow. Barry Li: Mainly because we don't have enough money to support them keep going, which is impossible as a startup to pay so many people- Host: Yeah Barry Li: right? Host: Yeah. Barry Li: And I think I work with... Right now, I closely work with over 300 students, one on one, work over 300 students to see their entrepreneurship journey and their college life journey. And also I work with a lot of adults, like adults and VCs. They help me so much about reading people and- Host: Yes Barry Li: understand about people. Yeah, so I think it just helped me so much with partner come and go. Host: Appreciate. I think we can wrap up this episode with a final question, which is actually, the audiences of our channel, we target them to be kind of student founders or- Barry Li: Yeah Host: early stage young founders. Do you have any advice for them, like, who may feeling uncertain, maybe lacking the courage, whether they should make the step to- Barry Li: Yeah Host: do their own entrepreneurship? Barry Li: Make the first step, which- Host: Yeah Barry Li: which you're writing about, right? Host: Yeah. Barry Li: I think- Host: What would you say to them? Yeah. Barry Li: Yeah. So, I'm also writing a book about like- Host: Good Barry Li: to have your first step- Host: Yeah Barry Li: into the entrepreneurship. So I think there will be two things you're looking for when you started your first business. The first thing is you are passionate about for years. And the second thing is you are good at this. If you are passionate about, you're not good at, you're not going to do it good. If you are really good at it, but- Host: But you're not passionate Barry Li: you don't like it, you're not going to do that good too. So find one thing have this overlap between- what you like- and what you can do really, really good. So once you find that things- Just don't worry about money. Just don't worry about what people are saying. Do as good as possible for years. But I think that they have to be positive things for society, not like a dark market. Host: Do you think we're doing a good job in being a host? Barry Li: I think so. I think so. And you guys are really passionate. You guys were driving from LA to here. Host: Yeah. Barry Li: I'm actually drive to LA today. Host: Oh. No. Oh, you are? Today? Barry Li: Yeah. Host: You're driving back to LA? Barry Li: Why wouldn't I drive to LA? To just chill out for two days and come back. Host: Nice. Okay. Oh, okay. Barry Li: Yeah. But anyway, so I think you guys have the courage to really step out the first step. Host: Yeah. Barry Li: This is your first venture, right? Host: Yes. Yes. Barry Li: Yeah. Just, I think you guys are good at it. Just keep doing this at least for a year or two. Host: Yeah. Barry Li: Don't give up. Just don't give up. Host: Appreciate it. Barry Li: If you're doing this for over 10 years, you still have 100 followers. Just give it up. Host: Oh, that's... Yeah. That's not gonna be good. Barry Li: You guys are not good at it, but- Host: Okay Barry Li: if you're doing one year, you have 10,000 followers. That is fantastic. Host: Yes. Yeah. Barry Li: That's fantastic, right? Host: Yeah. Barry Li: I think just find the overlap of what you're good at- and what you're passionate about it. Just lock in for at least two or three years. And you- Host: Thank you so much, Barry. Thank you so much, Dave, for your time. That will be- Thank you... a wrap up of our session today. And for one last sentence, can you share a little bit more about the events that's going to happening in Hacker Dojo so we can spread the word? Barry Li: Oh, yeah, yeah. Host: Next week, right? Or... Barry Li: Next week, Saturday, from 12:00 to 3:00 PM. So basically, it's a two-hour demo day. I will have a judge, investor coming. So we have 20 first-time founders, and they are very community, local Silicon Valley founders. They are not like super geniuses. They are not super talented, those 16, 17 years old, like genius kids. But they have a passion, and they don't have much noise. Everything's a signal. Their life is one signal. Host: Yes. Barry Li: Simple life. Host: Yes. Barry Li: Pure life. Host: Yes. Barry Li: Just wanna make their dream come true. So please come to support them. Host: Yes. Barry Li: And I'll be there for the... Little moderator, I will be there as one of the judges. Host: Awesome. Barry Li: Yeah. Please come. Yeah. Host: Awesome. We'll drop the link. And stay tuned for our next updates at 18VC podcast, as well as next update for Hacker Dojo